From the dole to directing Stormzy - global Multi-Camera Director Jan Genesis on how to succeed when the odds are stacked
In the last episode of series 1 of The Imposter Club, Kimberly is joined by megastar multicam director Jan Genesis, who's directed huge names such as Stormzy and Lewis Hamilton, and at events like the Commonwealth & Paralympic Games. Kimberly delves into his single parent upbringing, work ethic and mindset, and finds out how serious knockbacks like redundancy can actually be positive for your career.
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Episode guest info:
Jan Genesis:
https://jgenesismedia.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jan-genesis-02044212/
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Kimberly:For content makers.
Kimberly:Welcome to The Imposter Club, a podcast for people working in TV to admit that we are all just winging it.
Kimberly:I'm Kimberly Godbold, director Turn Talent Company founder and I glean secrets from influential figures in the creative industries every day.
Kimberly:spoiler alert, more successful people than you'd ever realize, still feel like a fraud, but you don't get to hear their stories.
Kimberly:That changes right here in this podcast.
Kimberly:It's my mission to discover how you can carve out an award-winning career in the company of self-doubt by asking respected senior people to share
Kimberly:Come on in to the Imposter club
Kimberly:I was listening to a bit of Hamilton this morning for a motivation.
Kimberly:I've decided that Hamilton, the musical is like my church It makes me focus on what I need to be doing.
Kimberly:I dunno.
Kimberly:Are you a Hamilton fan?
Jan:Um, I've not seen Hamilton actually.
Jan:I've heard it's really good though.
Jan:So what, you were lacking a bit of motivation this morning
Kimberly:I did a 7:00 AM circuits class,
Jan:Good work.
Kimberly:So I was like, right, I'm gonna stick the musical on loud and I'm gonna shout
Kimberly:. Right.
Kimberly:Let's do this
Kimberly:This is the last episode in our first series.
Kimberly:I can't believe it.
Kimberly:I've saved the best name for last, in my opinion, Jan Genesis.
Kimberly:Don't you just want to know this guy already?
Kimberly:Jan is a multi-camera director for huge events and live shows in the world of music and entertainment formats.
Kimberly:So he calls and chooses the shots in the studio or on location.
Kimberly:When there are a million cameras and people's coordinate.
Kimberly:You're going to love his confidence, but you know me by now, it's all about getting under the visible success.
Kimberly:To find out what happened along the way.
Kimberly:jan, thank you for joining the Imposter Club.
Jan:Well, thank you for having me.
Kimberly:I feel like I should be serving some drinks or at least canape or something at this stage in this series
Kimberly:, Jan: early for alcohol Man.
Kimberly:I got my cup of tea though.
Kimberly:Once we're onto live events, hashtag ambitious, we'll sort out the drinks menu.
Kimberly:Yeah.
Kimberly:,. Can I just be a bit fan girl for a minute?
Kimberly:So you, you are a multi-camera director on huge global formats and live events and big brand launches, but seriously, the names on your CV and the titles.
Kimberly:It's like, I think anyone would love, even if they aren't from entertainment or um, reality or sports, even sort of straight dokey, people I think would
Kimberly:And wow.
Kimberly:I, I would just have loved to have directed.
Kimberly:Lewis Hamilton or Stormy or Big Zoo, you, you've done 24 hours in a and e and police custody.
Kimberly:Um, you've done, , I'm a celebrity.
Kimberly:You've done the Commonwealth in the Paralympic games.
Kimberly:That is really cool.
Jan:I appreciate that.
Jan:Thank you.
Jan:Um, Do you know what sometimes, I forget myself.
Jan:the, , the range of talent that, that I've been able to, to work with and, and the different experiences I've had, like, uh, I think as a, as a multi camera director,
Kimberly:I'd love to find out from you, , your sort of earliest context.
Kimberly:Tell me a bit about you growing up and how you got into tele in the first place.
Jan:Sure.
Jan:Well, um, I guess the first thing I, I'd say is I, I totally stumbled into television.
Jan:There was never a clear plan.
Jan:It was never a path, there was never a directed ambition, so I grew up in, in Stephen, in, in Hartfordshire, brother and sister, a single parent kind of upbringing.
Jan:And, I guess I was someone , not exceptional at anything, but, , I was pretty good at most things.
Jan:I enjoyed sport.
Jan:I enjoyed I guess entertainment.
Jan:I enjoyed kind of being around people.
Jan:. Um, I went through the motions of school, struggled to get a balance right.
Jan:Got my way to university, um, studied media technology and digital broadcast.
Jan:Oh, that sounds like you kind of knew what you wanted to do at that
Jan:Did you always assume you had to go to uni?
Jan:Is that something that your mom wanted and did herself?
Jan:I think growing up she, she, again, there was a lot of period in, in our younger days where like she was a full-time mom.
Jan:Um, so she kind of looked after the three of us.
Jan:Um, she worked super hard, really driven, um, wanted to ensure that we didn't miss out on things.
Jan:And when we got to secondary school, she started working in a more administrative role.
Jan:But, um, we were, we were like really aware that we didn't have a parent who was gonna give us a, an internship at, in our law firm or open a door for us to have an opportunity like we were,
Jan:And so my mum really pushed us like to, to do well academically, which was part of the reason.
Jan:I went and did computer net network technology.
Jan:It sounded respectable, even, even though I wasn't particularly
Kimberly:Mom, it's got
Kimberly:computers in
Jan:net network.
Jan:That sounds fine.
Jan:So, um, so yeah, I went, I went down that road.
Jan:So it, it was, uh, it was like, yeah, like if you are, if you're gonna make anything yourself, you need to go to university.
Jan:It was that kind of, um, I wouldn't say we were forced, but it was very much, it wasn't really much conversation about something else unless there was a clear line.
Jan:Um, it was like, we need to get the education, we need to get the highest possible education we can, and then it was, then you need to kind of get a job after that.
Jan:So, uh,
Kimberly:Yeah.
Kimberly:And how did you get on with your siblings?
Kimberly:I know that, you know, you said that, um, you were really into football.
Kimberly:Tell me a bit about, about that and how they sort of shaped your personality.
Jan:I guess my brother and I, um, were similar age.
Jan:He's only two years below.
Jan:The, the fundamental difference between my brother and I is that I feel my brother was naturally talented, um, in, in a lot of areas, but particularly when it came to sport.
Jan:He didn't really have to particularly work hard and, um, and I guess we're,
Kimberly:Ah.
Kimberly:It's always annoying, isn't it, when you've got a sibling like
Jan:it is man.
Jan:It is.
Jan:Um, I always wanted him to do well.
Jan:So anytime, anything I'd learn, I'd wanna teach him, I'd wanna show him how it's done.
Jan:Um, and then he'd do it and he'd pick it up and he'd be better.
Jan:I guess I always took on that role of, the big brother, , but at the same time, when play together, I, I didn't wanna be out Sean, like by my little brother.
Jan:But the only way for me to stay at that level I felt, was to almost train for training.
Jan:I would be running around Stevenage on the cycle path.
Jan:I'd be doing 5K 10 k runs, um, when I was 14, 15, 16 years old.
Jan:Just kind of like keeping myself fit cuz that was the one thing I could control.
Jan:Um, yes, I could try hard in training, but it was like, what else can I do to, um, maximize what I can offer the team and to, and to keep myself at that level and be able to contribute.
Jan:And that was the kind of the like determining factor.
Jan:And I think when my brother and I sit down and we have conversations about growing up, he'll always, he'll, he'll always refer to my mindset and my work rate.
Jan:Um, whereas al a lot of the time I'll, I'll refer to his natural ability and his, his skillset.
Jan:From having that from a young age that's kind of stuck with me
Kimberly:so it's almost like you knew you had a level of ability, but you very early on identified that you had to find a different edge, which was your relentlessness, I suppose.
Kimberly:Is that a good word to use for it?
Jan:I, I think so.
Jan:Um, and yeah, no, I think, I think relentlessness persistence, um, yeah, the work rate, I, I think it was just, the only thing I knew how to do was work.
Jan:That was the only thing I'd do, work harder.
Jan:, if training starts at seven, I'll be there earlier, I'll, and I'll, and I'll be put in a bit, bit, bit longer and I'll stay thereafter.
Jan:And in the next morning when there's no training, I'll do my own sessions
Jan:but, um, but yeah, in, in our kind of early years, it was definitely that case of recognizing that, yeah, you are not, you're not the best at this.
Jan:Um, but you enjoy it.
Jan:And if you're gonna stay at this level, you're gonna have to put something extra in.
Kimberly:Where do you think that does come?
Jan:Um,
Kimberly:Did your mom instill that in you?
Kimberly:Because she's obviously a grafter from what you've said.
Jan:yeah, I, I definitely think, my mom had a, strong part to play.
Jan:She worked extremely hard, um, to ensure that we were able to not miss out on things.
Jan:And like even kind of down to helping us with homework and, and like I remember I'd be getting up at six o'clock in the morning on the deadline of off, off
Jan:So that ability to kind of like just maximize time that's the first place.
Jan:I saw it.
Kimberly:It's also a positive mental attitude, I think, isn't it?
Kimberly:Um, you could have easily gone, this is just really hard.
Kimberly:I'm not great at it.
Kimberly:I, I'll just sort of, you know, bimble along, I'll just manage it.
Kimberly:But there was something inside you that wanted to do really well to be ambitious.
Jan:yeah, I think so.
Jan:. But recognize where, where you can be, if you want to do something at the top level, you need to recognize something where you've got that, that talent to do that for.
Jan:And then put all of this effort into that, put this effort into that thing that you are, you are, you are really good at.
Jan:I was able to take some of that work great into university.
Jan:There was an internship opportunity, Where, um, uh, , our course choose to set up a visit to Bloomberg.
Kimberly:That was your first proper TV contract, was an internship at
Jan:That's right.
Jan:Yeah.
Jan:It was a 10 week internship um, as a broadcast technical operator.
Jan:, as soon as I walked into that building, you are right in the middle of the city.
Jan:Everybody's in suits, people are talking Spanish, Italian, Portuguese.
Jan:You are, you've got eight floors.
Jan:It's kind of like you've got free teas, coffees, snacks, all over the building.
Jan:Like the place is got just glass walls, so it looks huge.
Jan:Everything is kind of like amplified and, and it really looks like right, you are now in the big bad world.
Kimberly:It is an exciting industry, isn't it?
Kimberly:And especially the sort of roles you've got yourself into in studios rather than, out in the field in, less than glamorous hotels and, uh, filming in swamps and stuff that some people do.
Kimberly:I, I just think, yeah, your shiny worlds is super cool.
Jan:I just was like, I've got to make sure that whatever happens, I get a full-time position here, like this 10 week internship.
Jan:Has to be a full-time position.
Jan:That was my mentality from day one.
Jan:So I said, I'm gonna do whatever I need to do to make sure I get it.
Jan:And the only thing I know how to do is work hard.
Jan:I got fortunate , someone called in sick.
Jan:I was able to cover them and I was offered the full-time position to extend straight after the 10 week internship.
Kimberly:Wow.
Kimberly:So you are at, Bloomberg.
Kimberly:You spent a couple of years.
Kimberly:On and off doing sort of different jobs and, um, l you know, climbing the ranks to an extent and working really hard as we've established that you, you do.
Kimberly:You've got a directing job incredibly early on in your career.
Kimberly:Tell me a bit about how that happened
Jan:sure.
Jan:So I, I, I became a, a technical operator.
Jan:, a year and a half later, they advertise for an internal position for an in-house director.
Jan:. , and I looked at it, and initially I didn't even consider going for it, but I did think . I'd kind of shown competency.
Jan:I'd done all of the roles.
Jan:I had a good understanding of how it worked.
Jan:I'd finished unit 21.
Jan:I would've been about 23 here.
Jan:Then I, I thought, well, let me go and let me go into the gallery and let me just see how these directors work.
Jan:Um, so I remember watching, sitting in the gallery, watching the directors, watching what they were doing.
Jan:For me, even when I got into Bloomberg, just going back to your whole, the whole imposter syndrome.
Jan:When I walk in today, the first time from university, I've never seen any equipment.
Jan:I've never even picked up a proper camera other than a little camcorder.
Jan:I've never seen a vision mixer.
Jan:I dunno what that person is.
Jan:I've never seen a sound desk.
Jan:Master control.
Jan:Don't have a clue what it is.
Jan:Video intake feeds don't have a clue what it is.
Jan:So I walk in there and it looks like I'm in Space Station.
Jan:I have no idea what it is, but within it, so, so for me and everyone around is just operating it really casual.
Jan:Like, like it's nothing.
Jan:So I feel really at my depth, but I, I attack it and within a year and a half, I've done all of the roles and I've got a good understanding of what everyone does.
Jan:Again, without being spectacular at anything, but having a reason to be having a good understanding and showing competence to cover in all those areas.
Jan:Um, this role comes up.
Jan:I see what the director's doing and I realize, well, hold on a second.
Jan:This director, um, They're not physically having to do anything.
Jan:They're not physically having to cut cameras or raise sound, fades, or like, they're just, they're communicating to what everybody listen and they need to have an understanding, but
Jan:And I thought, oh, I think, I feel like that probably suits me.
Jan:, like I can leave the people who love those, doing those areas to do that, but I just need to kind of like help orchestrate that.
Jan:So well listen, let me apply and if I don't get it again, maybe I'll get the vision mixer role.
Jan:Worst case scenario, just carry on what I'm doing.
Jan:Nothing to lose.
Kimberly:Good attitude to have actually, uh, because like you say, , you didn't think you could necessarily pull it off.
Kimberly:You did some research to investigate whether you really could or not, and then thought, what's the worst that could happen?
Kimberly:So that's a positive attitude to have, I think.
Jan:Yeah.
Jan:And again, it was, it just was a situation I just thought, I can't really lose here.
Jan:Um, so I, I applied, . And then I got down to the final two.
Jan:And for me, I really rated the way they kind of actually did this process because it really gave everybody a fair chance.
Jan:It wasn't just about who's been here the longest.
Jan:, I had to write a cover note and, and as to why I felt I could do it.
Jan:And my angle would've been different to someone who's maybe been there for 20 years who's done different roles.
Jan:, but then, then when it came to the final two, it was okay.
Jan:Right?
Jan:On a Saturday, we need you to both to come in.
Jan:You're both gonna director as a 20 minute or a half an hour show.
Jan:, we're gonna have presenters in, we're gonna have a full crew in, we're gonna have a full.
Jan:Um, and we'll, we'll literally be auditing you from prep to, um, briefing to directing and to post shows.
Jan:So literally we had to do the job.
Jan:Um, we had to be assessed on it, and they were gonna choose the person they felt was the best candidate for the job based on actually doing it.
Kimberly:in
Kimberly:the room, That's
Jan:real gallery, in a real environment, an actual presenter.
Jan:You could get feedback from the presenter, you can get feedback from the reporters.
Jan:So for, for me, it was a really, really good way of doing it, um, in-house.
Jan:And
Kimberly:Mildly terrifying.
Kimberly:how did you deal with that ? Are you all right under pressure?
. Jan:I don't, I don't actually remember that much like, I know my approach.
. Jan:It would've been, I've just gotta focus on what I could control and what I can do.
. Jan:Literally, someone's sitting over your shoulder with a note notepad while you are doing it
. Jan:but,
. Jan:When you're doing those shows, you've got producer next to you anyway.
. Jan:You've got a presenter watch you.
. Jan:Sometimes you'll have one of the, um, execs from the channel coming down and looking at what you're doing anyway.
. Jan:Um, so it wasn't totally alien to me having people watching in the gallery.
. Jan:It was normal.
Kimberly:you're kind of on show in your
Kimberly:job anyway.
Jan:right.
Jan:You're, you're in show mode.
Jan:So yeah, and I'm, I managed to get the position and um, and that was how I started.
Kimberly:So that was all good.
Kimberly:But I suppose you had been in the building in the industry for a year and a half, and then you were given the director job at age 23 against other people who've been doing stuff a lot longer.
Kimberly:How was that received and how did you handle yourself, being such a young director with lots of other experienced crew, I imagine.
Jan:Yeah, that was, I'd say that was probably the point in my career, um, where I probably felt the first phase of really serious challenges.
Kimberly:this is The Imposter Club Coming up,
Jan:It was a tough time.
Jan:I had to sign on at the job center and really reconsider my whole, career path.
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Kimberly:Welcome back to the imposter club where multi-camera director Jan Genesis is talking about getting his first directing break age 23.
Kimberly:But it's suddenly not feeling the love on the studio floor.
Jan:There were very few people who just came up and said, oh, fantastic.
Jan:It's great.
Jan:You've got the job really support you.
Jan:Con congratulations . again.
Jan:I was new there, so I didn't have the same relationships.
Jan:Like some of those people have been there for 10, 20 years.
Jan:Um, they'd go out for drinks together.
Jan:They'd have a, a relationship beyond work.
Jan:But, um, yeah, I kind of like, I found myself in situations where I was doing the shows and.
Jan:Just felt like people weren't cooperating and, trying to help you win if you like, really trying to help the show go well.
Jan:I've seen it now when new people are, are starting a lot of the time you'll get the rest of the team, more experience rally around them a little bit and say, oh yeah, we usually
Jan:So experience people coming forward to help and support rather than sitting back and waiting for that person to fail and saying, see, this is why you're not really ready for this job.
Jan:This is why you shouldn't really do it.
Jan:And I think for me it was like I had things like sound, the sound operator not raising a mic unless I specifically said, raise the mic now.
Jan:And even sometimes it would then be a little bit slow and a bit late.
Jan:That kind of stuff gets picked up by everybody.
Jan:Then it's like, who's directing the show?
Jan:What's going on with director?
Jan:And then it's like, no, no one said anything.
Jan:Or you get a vision mixer maybe , cutting the wrong camera or cutting the wrong, the wrong player of a B roll.
Jan:And sometimes it's, it's human error, which we all have.
Jan:Um, but a lot of time it was like, unless I specifically said exactly what you needed to do, and when it didn't feel like there was just common sense.
Jan:It felt like people were almost working against me without trying to absolutely derail their own career by saying, well, listen, you are a director.
Jan:We'll do exactly what you say and only what you say.
Jan:It was that kind of energy.
Jan:So, um,
Kimberly:Yeah.
Kimberly:Okay.
Kimberly:So they were kind of, they were working against you or just sort of waiting to, to trip you up?
Jan:yeah, or waiting for me to trip myself up.
Jan:Naturally I didn't do everything perfectly, um, to start with.
Jan:I, I hadn't, I didn't really have lots of experience.
Jan:And, and it's, and it's not to say everyone was like that as well, but you just noticed that every, there were, there were some people
Kimberly:Did you think you were going mad or, kind of making it up , or was it just really obvious that's what was happening?
Jan:For me it was, it was obvious.
Jan:Um, , it did make you think, oh man, maybe I need more training.
Jan:Maybe I need to be doing something better.
Jan:Cause ultimately this isn't happening on everybody's show, but ultimately, um, I felt like as the young, I guess the risk person, there's less, there's less
Jan:It felt like there was a lot of pressure for me to kind of come in and, do well,
Kimberly:and there's a danger there isn't there?
Kimberly:That then, people in the future, uh, go, oh, well, let's not do that again.
Kimberly:Because, you know, we brought on that new person who I didn't have much experience, was really young, and it didn't really work out, did it?
Kimberly:And actually that wasn't, well, I, I wasn't there.
Kimberly:But that wasn't your fault, it seems, um, because people were not supporting you in that.
Kimberly:, how did you feel in that situation?
Kimberly:And then what did you do about it?
Jan:Yeah.
Jan:Well, so, so it's one of those ones you go, you, you finish your show, you beat yourself up.
Jan:Like for me, it's one of those ones where, whether it's my fault or not is my fault.
Jan:Like I, I, I just felt I have to find, I've gotta take responsibility like I'm directing the show.
Jan:It's down to me.
Jan:I've gotta figure out a way for this not to happen.
Jan:The beauty of life is that when that show's finished, you've got another show in an hour's time, like I was directing maybe three hours a day.
Jan:So you have to take that experience that happened at the five o'clock.
Jan:You use that in the eight o'clock and then sometimes you have another shut 10, . So for me, my, my air miles were shooting up though.
Jan:I, I had to, I had to learn really quick.
Jan:And ultimately, , I had to take responsibility.
Jan:I had to think, well, hold on.
Jan:If these guys are only gonna do things when I tell them to, I'm gonna have to tell 'em to every time.
Jan:and I'm gonna brief exactly how I'm gonna work to every single person.
Jan:And I'm gonna do that with everyone in the, room so everybody can hear that we've got a briefing of how we're gonna work in the first instance.
Jan:Then I'm gonna stand them by for absolutely everything.
Jan:And I'm gonna wait.
Jan:I'm gonna make sure they confirm when that they're standing by so that they're ready and then I'm gonna tell 'em to.
Kimberly:All right, so walk me through that.
Kimberly:How did that sound
Jan:Okay.
Jan:So it'd be something like, okay guys, so listen, what we, what we gonna do, um, this is happening in this show.
Jan:We're gonna have this guest, this guest, give the overview of the show.
Jan:Then it's okay.
Jan:We're, we're in the show.
Jan:Okay.
Jan:Stand by presenter.
Jan:We'll start with Susanna.
Jan:Stand by sound on a or stand by sound with Susanna Confirmed sound.
Jan:You with me?
Jan:Stand by with Susanna's mic.
Jan:Yep.
Jan:Okay, here we go.
Jan:Three, two, raising Mike.
Jan:Q Susan.
Jan:So for me it was, it, it was, it was over directed a little bit.
Jan:Um, it was o and it was just getting that, getting that back and forth.
Jan:Okay.
Jan:Stand by.
Jan:VT on a standing by.
Jan:Great.
Jan:If I've heard, if as soon as I hear standing by.
Jan:Okay.
Jan:And run v t on a,
Kimberly:Well that's clever because you're confirming everyone knows everything, but you're also chucking the, well, you're passing the button to them to say, now it's your fault.
Kimberly:If it goes.
Kimberly:Not that that's a very team player.
Kimberly:That doesn't sound like I'm a team player, but if they were trying to get you to trip you up, you've now gotta say, nah.
Kimberly:Responsibility,
Kimberly:back to you.
Jan:That's, that's the way I look at it.
Jan:It's more about the responsibility because, um, I physically can't raise the failures myself.
Jan:I can't do that.
Jan:Okay.
Jan:So I have to entrust you to do that, uh, because that's why you are here.
Jan:You are, that's your professional area.
Jan:So it started with that
Jan:, so then it was more a case of, right now we need maybe just build some relationships with some of these guys , and just try and kind of, um, get
Jan:, what do you need?
Jan:And sometimes it's not just the director coming up with all the answers.
Kimberly:And, and also, don't you find that by, um, involving other people, it tells them that you respect them and it tells 'em that you value what they.
Kimberly:And you are also then establishing that relationship between you that says, look, this is a, this is a two-way street.
Jan:And that is ultimately what happened?
Jan:It came down to kind of like having, like even outside of the studio, having more informal conversations with, with the team.
Jan:, Letting them know what I needed.
Jan:And for me, it only took a few, like, I'd say less than a month, and we were kind of into a bit of a flow.
Jan:And then, um, within two or three months, we were really, we really had a rhythm and all of these problems were kind of like, I fingered the past.
Kimberly:How would you establish those relationships?
Kimberly:I mean, you make it sound really easy, Jan, what kind of advice can you give about the way that you get to know people?
Jan:I think there's some simple things.
Jan:Um, I think it start starts off with, um, first of all just saying hello to people when you see them, um, knowing their names.
Jan:Um, so say, Hey Kimberly, that's very different to hire and walking by it, right?
Jan:So it becomes a bit more personal if you know the person's name.
Jan:Um, Also in those, in, in those kind of one-to-ones, you can be a bit more.
Jan:You can say, oh yeah, , how's your weekend?
Jan:Did you wa if, if they liked sport, did you watch the game last night?
Jan:You can kind of break the ice a little bit with something that is less uptight and less, less kind of formal.
Jan:If they like watching Hamilton, you could talk a little bit about Li Little bit,
Kimberly:Now I've gotta use a bit of our Hamilton Waffle at the beginning of this.
Jan:yeah, exactly.
Jan:If they like the theater.
Jan:So, , even if there isn't something that directly connects you, um, if you can be a little bit interested in them, maybe just outside of what they actually do.
Jan:It definitely helps break the ice and it definitely helps, kind of like smooth that relationship over a little bit
, Kimberly:let's move on to , the next phase in your career.
, Kimberly:Actually, how many years were you at
Jan:Uh, seven and a half in total.
Kimberly:Oh wow.
Kimberly:So you did the first massive part of your career there.
Kimberly:Um, do you think you felt like you were trusted and you were confident by the end of that time?
Jan:very much so.
Jan:Yeah.
Jan:I think, um, I think after I'd gone through that, that challenge of becoming a director, Finding my feet, establishing people's confidence, and then starting to do the main shows.
Jan:, but I guess, yeah, that kind of , brings us to where I got made redundant eventually in 2013.
Jan:And that was pure, that was purely based around the company restructure.
Kimberly:Wow.
Kimberly:I mean, that must have been a blow.
Jan:It was, another type of challenge, another, another shock.
Jan:Um, I felt I was doing really well within the company., and then yeah, they were closing down, operations from London and moving it all to New York.
Jan:So yeah, I got made redundant in January, 2013 and, um, and I was out into the big, bad world.
Kimberly:And that's all you had known was Bloomberg.
Kimberly:So how did you feel at that time?
Jan:Um, so if I'm honest with you, at that time, I felt quite confident.
Jan:I looked around at what BBC News were doing and what Sky were doing.
Jan:And I thought, listen, most of those shows, um, I didn't look at as any more complicated than the stuff that I, I'd already done.
Jan:Um, yes, it was obviously a more well-known platform, but I felt the fundamentals of what they were doing wasn't any more difficult.
Jan:So I thought this is just a new chapter for me.
Jan:It was more excitement.
Jan:What's gonna, what's gonna be, what's gonna be the next step?
Kimberly:Healthy attitude into, into being forced into unemployment.
Jan:yeah, na, naturally you have that fear.
Kimberly:But sometimes you, sometimes you need that though, don't you, to kind of move on.
Kimberly:I mean, perhaps you wouldn't have wanted to spend your whole life or your whole career at Bloomberg anyway.
Jan:Absolutely.
Jan:, I know for, for a couple of years at the time, I'd felt like I, um, I'm actually quite enjoying this directing, uh, but we are doing financial news every day.
Jan:I am waking up at three or four in the morning every day.
Jan:, I wonder what else is out there.
Jan:I wonder if I could maybe use these skills, but in an area that I enjoy a little bit more.
Kimberly:Well, you mean you didn't get incredibly excited about the financial markets
Kimberly:and,
Jan:struggled.
Jan:Um, , but I guess when you've, , all you've known is a stable income and you've got, you've got like a format, you've got a structure, you've got a management team.
Jan:That's the only thing I knew.
Jan:So yeah, kind of like, that was the daunting part.
Jan:It was like, okay, all of this potential, all this potential opportunities, but then it is like, oh, wow.
Jan:Hold on.
Jan:How do I start, how do I, yes, I'm, I can maybe do this job, but how do I get these, these positions?
Jan:I'm going on the BBC website.
Jan:I'm looking at the careers page.
Jan:I'm trying to look for director roles.
Jan:I'm not seeing anything.
Jan:Um, then I'm trying to, then I'm kind of like finding contact within b, bbc, um, kind of production manager type people and sending emails out.
Jan:I'm doing the same for itv, I'm doing the same for bbc, , regional.
Jan:I'm doing the same with loads of different production companies.
Jan:And, and I, I guess like 90, 98% of them I'm not getting responses.
Jan:So, um, so yeah, that imposter syndrome sets in again.
Jan:It's like , maybe I'm not, I shouldn't be doing this.
Jan:Um, cuz now you're, you, you're may redundant.
Jan:You're not directing every day.
Jan:So you don't have that confidence at keeping you there.
Jan:You don't have peers around you who are maybe enjoying the show that you are doing.
Jan:So now you've gone for two or three months.
Jan:No one's responding to your emails, no one's kind of getting back to you.
Jan:Um, no one's kind of given any credibility to any of the experience you've had.
Jan:Um, you're like, you don't know anyone.
Jan:You've got no one you could call.
Jan:You've got no one you could talk to.
Jan:And even your peers, a lot of them have been made redundant as well.
Jan:So everyone's kind of out for themselves in a way.
Jan:Everyone's got a out for themselves and try and get their souls roles.
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Kimberly:So suddenly you haven't got your friends helping you out either.
Kimberly:And there's this, almost this slightly hidden, icky, , kind of competitiveness, um, because you are all kind of probably going for the same jobs, and that's
Jan:Exactly that.
Jan:So I, I'm starting to see my peers getting roles and some of these guys have maybe like been directing, not even as long as me, it was a tough, it was a tough time.
Jan:I had to sign on at the, at the job center and, um, and really reconsider my whole, career path.
Jan:And I thought, well, maybe this is it for me in, in TV and,, um, I'm gonna pursue the football coaching
Kimberly:so you genuinely thought that that was it and that you might have to leave the industry.
Jan:Yeah.
Jan:Yeah.
Jan:Cause really it was like, you, you haven't really even started in the industry.
Jan:It was like those seven and a half years kind of counted for nothing from the outsider's perspective, from every, from the main industry because no one cared about Bloomberg.
Jan:No one cared about an experience.
Jan:Um, especially as a director, it was like, I remember, I, I, I started applying for vision mixer roles.
Jan:No interest, even AP roles, no interest.
Jan:I couldn't even get an AP role after, after seven and a half years directing.
Jan:So I thought, listen, this is, this isn't for me.
Jan:I need to kind of go down a different route.
Jan:And I've always loved, like football, I've always loved coaching.
Jan:. And I remember I got a chance to work with the Tottenham, um, U team and Fulham U team.
Jan:And, and I thought, listen, I could do this.
Jan:And, um, just by, by chance, um, a position came up at, at Sky Sports , it happened to be the same person who hired me as an intern, had moved a couple
Jan:But then he came back to me and he said, listen, I've just sent your CV to Sky Sports.
Jan:And, um, I've asked him to kind of get in touch and, and that kind of opened the door there, really,
Kimberly:Wow.
Kimberly:Look at that.
Kimberly:The value of relationships there,
Jan:Absolutely.
Kimberly:but that's something you had carved out.
Kimberly:I don't mean that in the, I look at you knowing someone and that's the only person that helped you get your next thing.
Kimberly:I mean, you made that relationship happen in the first place and thought to tap them up again.
Kimberly:But, um, going back to the being unemployed bit, I know this is incredibly relatable.
Kimberly:To the people listening, our fellow imposters.
Kimberly:How did you occupy your time?
Jan:Um, . So I started doing the football coaching.
Jan:I did a TV production course as well.
Jan:, I did filmmaking on a micro budget, so I thought maybe I'll go down the film route and give that a go.
Jan:So I kind of, I kind of did three courses during that, during that period of time.
Kimberly:I knew you'd say something like that.
Kimberly:You never sit still, do you?
Kimberly:Chad,
Jan:No, well,
Jan:this,
Kimberly:are a busy person.
Jan:like, for, for me, I, I think at that point I really realized that, that things don't just fall or certainly for me, things don't just fall on my lap ever.
Jan:The world isn't just kind of waiting to just start giving you gifts.
Jan:So it, it was like, if I, if I'm gonna make something, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to do something to myself.
Jan:And I was like, I had a camcorder.
Jan:I started doing kind of like my brother was in music at the time and I started making videos of him in the studio and, and take and following
Jan:So I was doing, driving around the country at events and filming that kind of stuff as well.
Jan:So I was doing a lot of stuff that was keeping me active and keeping me kind of creative.
Jan:But for me, ultimately the main thing I needed to ensure was that, um, I had a way that I could control, um, I could control my own destiny in a lot of ways.
Jan:Although employment seems secure, it's only secure until it's not anymore.
Jan:I'd learned that I put a lot of eggs in all of my eggs in one basket and I maybe was comfortable.
Jan:Um, but all it takes is you are getting made with London and you're in the same, you are in a worse position than a freelancer in a lot of ways.
Jan:So yeah, I made that decision before Sky Sports, I'm gonna set up my own limited company and, and that's where I kind of started and.
Jan:Again, it was only a day after that.
Jan:That's that first sky, that's first Skype, um, contract came in, and then only a couple of days after that, um, um, one of the, uh, Ben Hardy, who was the series
Jan:Um, one of the, one of the house directors were pregnant and couldn't do the series.
Jan:And he contacted me saying, you available?
Jan:I, I think you'd fit in with this perfectly.
Jan:And then now I had two clients, big Brother, 12 weeks in the summer.
Jan:Um,
Jan:sky's kind of like a year rolling one, so it, it was great.
Jan:But you walk into that Big Brother studio and there's like 70 cameras.
Jan:It's like totally different setup to what you're used to.
Jan:You're like, what hell about them
Jan:talking
Kimberly:about financial news, so.
Kimberly:So you went from signing on at the job center?
Kimberly:I've been there.
Kimberly:I remember them asking me what kinds of roles I would like to apply for and feeling like a total fraud there because I'm like, well, you know, it would need
Kimberly:And they're looking at you like, nah, I'm talking about this factory job, or this Tesco job, or whatever.
Kimberly:What was your experience there
Jan:it very, very, very similar, to the point where I'd signed on and I think I'd signed on for maybe two or three weeks.
Jan:And that's when I said, listen, , I'd rather not even just get, not even get the money.
Jan:I'd rather, so like literally I went in there, , and then they, they'd call me up and it was almost like I felt like they were looking down on me.
Jan:It was like, what kind of job do you.
Jan:I told 'em exactly what I said, Hey, listen, I'm a TV director, so I'm looking for roles in TV director and I would consider vision mixing.
Jan:Um, I'd consider kind of some sort of technical cooperations maybe, but really this is kind of what I want.
Jan:And then they just look right back at me of a straight face and say, okay, but let's be realistic.
Jan:It is that kind of thing.
Jan:I'm like, listen, I've been doing this for seven and a half years.
Jan:I'm not just making up a dream in the sky.
Jan:But it was almost like they, they, they, they didn't wanna take what I was saying seriously.
Jan:They were like, I was being un realistic and, and like even when I went in, obviously I had to show that I've been, I've been applying for jobs.
Jan:Like I'd just be chilling out thinking, yeah, I'm gonna do nothing all week, um, or nothing or month.
Kimberly:There's a real gap isn't there for people like us in that situation because it's not that you're not looking for work, but you've got to kind of
Kimberly:Because, you know, the next freelance job could be around the corner, and then you'd take that and you'd earn five times more than what they
Kimberly:It's, it's difficult.
Jan:it's so difficult.
Jan:Yeah, there's so many flaws of it.
Jan:If I, if I set up my own company, I'm no longer unemployed, but I'm now self-employed and it just means that I can do whatever I need to do to
Jan:And, uh, , fortunately the Sky Sports came in, the Big Brother came in and that kind of started it.
Jan:And I kind of started with a limited company through that.
Kimberly:Yeah.
Kimberly:So you learned from being at Bloomberg for one time, feeling nice and cozy and confident, and then getting made redundant that having all your eggs, eczema, one basket was not,
Jan:On a personal level, it was, um, it was challenging.
Jan:Like I was quite careful with my savings anyway, , throughout that time.
Jan:So, um, whilst I,
Kimberly:I saw the financial information
Jan:yeah, yeah, that's it.
Kimberly:were directing.
Jan:Yeah.
Jan:So, so whilst, whilst obviously no one wants to be in a position where, they're not earning what they're used to earning every, every month, For me, I looked
Jan:, I didn't really, um, I didn't, I don't stop particularly cuz I didn't know where the end was gonna be.
Jan:I didn't stop looking for things, finding different ways, figuring out how to do stuff.
Jan:So, um, I don't think it, I don't think it had a massive, negative effect on, on the personal life.
Jan:Although socially, I definitely wasn't going out for drinks.
Jan:Because it was like, I can't, I can't afford to waste money and time going for drinks and having a good time when I don't know how, how I'm gonna earn in the future.
Jan:I need to put everything into, somehow setting up a future for myself really.
, Kimberly:you are such a positive and upbeat person, though.
, Kimberly:I feel like there's so many, there's a lot of times within your career story up to this point that you could have, well, jacked it in or, felt like this is too hard.
, Kimberly:Is that just an inbuilt personality thing, do you think?
, Kimberly:I mean, how you seem very sort of level, level, headed.
Jan:That's a good
Jan:question.
Jan:Um,
Kimberly:Or do you have this great front?
Kimberly:Are you actually the ultimate imposter, Jan, where all of this, you just have to work hard?
Kimberly:Yeah, it's been tough, but blah, blah, blah.
Kimberly:Upbeat is actually a front and underneath you are like a soft, mushy mess.
Kimberly:I promise this isn't therapy, but um, some people have likened it.
Jan:no, do, do you know what, like, like.
Jan:Don't get wrong with this.
Jan:There's definitely, um, there's definitely kind of like, like fears and worries and stuff that come into play for sure.
Jan:But, um, ultimately, like, I guess, I guess for me it just comes down to the same thing and it's, it's how we've been since we're, we were young.
Jan:Okay, you can be upset about something, but that's not gonna help the situation.
Jan:Like, from my perspective, it's not gonna help the situation being sad, being nervous, being upset.
Jan:For me, we have like, my whole outlook is just being pragmatic about it.
Jan:We've gotta figure out, okay, this is happened.
Jan:How are we gonna, how are we gonna approach it?
Jan:How are we gonna get up with it?
Jan:How are we gonna move forward from it?
Jan:Um, I think, yeah, literally like having been in that situation where I was unemployed, where, my experience kind of counted for nothing.
Jan:I don't, I don't wanna be there again.
Jan:But at the same time, I know what it's like so it doesn't terrify me.
Jan:Um, I know that I'll find another way.
Jan:So for me, it's, it shaped my approach because I'm driven so that I'm not in that situation.
Jan:Again, I'm driven so that I'm not in a position where one organization can control my whole life and my whole upbringing.
Jan:And one day they can just say, do you know what?
Jan:We're closing down.
Jan:Or, so, But also, looking at that next generation as well and just thinking, listen,
Jan:for me in this industry to survive, I think you have to have an, an element of fixed skin and resilience and, particularly in what we do as
Kimberly:I think that that's, really cool.
Kimberly:And also the point of, of doing this, and I think by getting senior successful people like you to come and talk about how.
Kimberly:You've got through challenges can just give people that reassurance that it's not just you.
Kimberly:Because so often in, especially in this, you know, mainly freelance industry, you feel very alone.
Kimberly:And it feels like I'm the only one who's not getting phone calls.
Kimberly:I'm the only one who's signing on at the job center.
Kimberly:I'm the only one who's, you know, pretending to be happy and upbeat.
Kimberly:But really I'm feeling worried about everything.
Kimberly:I've noticed that you do a lot of, mentoring and, encouraging apprentice style schemes, , taking people under your wing for shadowing
Kimberly:I have a lot of respect for that, especially with someone who's so busy as you.
Kimberly:Why do you feel that's, I.
Jan:Even before I got into this industry, I never knew working in TV was even a thing.
Jan:I never really realized it was an option.
Jan:Yeah, I'll watch tv, but there was nothing, nothing that suggested that.
Jan:It was even a, a hope in hell of working in there.
Jan:That was even an option.
Jan:And you could kind of like fast forward that even to the point that I'd worked in TV for seven and a half years, got made redundant, had to go to the job center and
Jan:That it's not even a thing.
Jan:It's not even an option.
Jan:I, I didn't, I didn't have any reference, any reference of anybody kind of like me who worked in the, who I could connect with or relate to in any way.
Jan:For me, it's like if I was to go through my whole career and not give people some sort of visibility that it's a, it's possible for me, we, we haven't kind of moved the needle at all.
Jan:, but even if I can help out one person, even if I, uh, maybe that person is super talented, first of all, they can bring something different to
Jan:Right.
Jan:Particularly if it's not the typical people you'd see in a typical role.
Jan:The people who are likely to get the opportunity are people who have got a dad, a brother, a sister, an auntie, someone who's already a director.
Jan:They are gonna be the people most likely to get into that position, right?
Jan:Because they're just gonna, they, they're, they're gonna, it's bring your son or bring your daughter to Workday.
Jan:But what if you, what if you haven't?
Jan:What if you've done anything that is on paper technically the right thing to do.
Jan:You've studied, you've read it up, you've realized that's what you wanna do.
Jan:So now if you're someone who's starting up, you're someone who's maybe, you, you don't come from a background of wealth or anything like that, you've now gotta make a choice.
Jan:Or are you gonna go and start shadowing lots of days for nothing?
Jan:Or you're gonna go and work in a coffee shop so that you can pay your rent.
Jan:So that now you've got, now you've got a tough decision to make because you've gotta, you've gotta go for your career, which everyone's expecting.
Jan:If you really want it, you just do it.
Jan:You just do it for free.
Jan:but
Jan:But hold on, you've gotta survive.
Jan:You've gotta survive, right?
Jan:So a lot, so sometimes these people will, will, will have to hard decision and say, listen, I've gotta work.
Jan:I've gotta work in the coffee shop.
Jan:And they'll say, okay, no worries.
Jan:And the opportunity will go to that person who can afford to just kind of do it for free because they, they, they're supported in that way as well.
Kimberly:And that is a lot of the reason why we don't have a particularly diverse industry or that, because it's just, it's so hard for people with no connections to the industry, um,
Kimberly:It's much harder.
Kimberly:Statistically for those people to work for free and to get in and honestly, Jan as a black director yourself, I think that is why what the work that you do in
Kimberly:So I, I wanted to say thank you for that because I'm really aware of it and I watch your little videos and I love them.
Jan:Oh, no, thank you.
Jan:Um, no, I appreciate that.
Jan:For me, it's more just a case where I just think there's, there's a hell of a lot of talking when it comes to these things.
Jan:A hell of a lot of talking, oh, we've gotta do, what should we do?
Jan:Let's have a meeting, let's talk for three years, let's review it with a committee.
Jan:And I, I got, I got to a point, very quickly that, I just decided I'm , I'm not really here for these conversations.
Jan:Like, like I'm gonna just start doing things myself, and I'm gonna start just trying to give people opportunities, um, where I can, um, within reason, I don't, I don't have a huge company.
Jan:I don't have huge resources, but if I can do a little bit to help one or two people , then great.
Kimberly:There's so much you can talk about, so many meetings you can have, and actually sometimes it's, the answer is a lot easier.
Kimberly:I don't mean to the whole big problem of making the industry more diverse, but I mean those small steps that anyone can take, like bringing someone onto a shoot or going into your kid's
Kimberly:Um, right.
Kimberly:Is there anything that you wish you could sit the younger Jan down now and tell.
Jan:Um, , I think the fir the first one is, in this industry, um, people are not gonna hand anything out . You need to actually plan your own route.
Jan:You need to be really kind of like, you need to be really de.
Jan:About the steps that you wanna take in your own career and really take control of that and work towards a specific goal, if you wanna make it to the top of this industry.
Jan:Um, I think the second thing is, um, regardless of how good you are, nothing gets made about a great team around you.
Jan:And the importance of building relationships and building a great team that you can work with is, is, um, is paramount.
Jan:It's massive.
Jan:So, um, building good relationships with people and people who aren't necessarily like you, people who are different, who, who can bring a different perspective.
Jan:For me, the best teams are the ones that come from multiple different perspectives.
Jan:Someone who can bring a different insight to what you have.
Jan:I always try and tap into people who don't have exactly the same journey as me.
Jan:If they did, we'd know very little.
Jan:The reason I could kind of do a lot of shows like this is because I have people who come who could bring so many different things, and even with some of the
Jan:Background into some of the TV stuff we're doing, and we start to try and shoot stuff in a different way.
Jan:And , it's a team environment.
Jan:Um, and I think the third one will be, um, I liken it to football.
Jan:It's playing, it, it's, it's playing people in the right positions.
Jan:It's recognizing what you are good at.
Jan:, you don't have to be good at everything.
Jan:You don't have to be great at everything, but recognizing what you are good at play in that position and I'd just like a football player.
Jan:Um, I'd say if you might be good at Striker, but you're terrible at tackling, you're not gonna play at the fence, you're gonna play out front.
Jan:I, I use the same kind of analogy.
Jan:Yeah, there are a few little nuggets that I'd give to my, my younger self.
Kimberly:Love that.
Kimberly:I really love that.
Kimberly:And I love how we keep bringing it back to both football and finances, which is quite fun.
Kimberly:Um, but I do, I think some people hire so just in their own reflection, and it is, it is boring because we are boring.
Kimberly:If we are, if there was like lots of God, nobody wants lots of Kimberlys in the same room, but if there was lots of me with my same background, with my same
Kimberly:But, you know, it, bringing other people to the table brings different ideas and it's, it's creative.
Kimberly:And that's exactly what you are getting at Jen.
Kimberly:Like if you have lots of different people from lots of different genres and roles and backgrounds in a room, you're gonna have.
Kimberly:Brilliant, fun coming up with stuff, some of which lands, some of which doesn't, but is gonna be a lot more creative than, um, sitting down
Kimberly:So I'm, I'm all on board with that.
Kimberly:Um, so I think your kind of overall moral of the, the Jan Genesis story, oh my God, we haven't even talked about your surname.
Kimberly:Genesis is just the best surname of all time.
Kimberly:I mean, I thought God Bowl was quite strong, but Genesis,
Kimberly:I mean, it's just awesome.
Kimberly:Anyway, um, I think the kind of moral of your story or the overall theme of your story is your work ethic.
Kimberly:, your attitude of just cracking on.
Kimberly:And also , you seem to have this talent for, , shrugging stuff off.
Kimberly:Or at least if you feel like you've lost your confidence or you're a bit anxious about something, you do something about it.
Kimberly:So how would you sort of describe that, that, that you do in terms of something helpful for other people?
Jan:Um, this industry is tough.
Jan:There's no, there's no two ways about it.
Jan:It's challenging.
Jan:There are things that are gonna maybe frustrate us, maybe make us angry at times.
Jan:, and for me, the most important thing is how we, how we use that it's been lots of situations where maybe I felt doors have closed.
Jan:, but I, I would use that to navigate a different, to navigate a different environment.
Jan:Any frustration or anger, kind of like it fires me up, it fires me up and it motivates me.
Jan:I guess it's the alter ego of imposter syndrome, right?
Jan:I'll have something in my head telling me, oh, why should you not be here?
Jan:But if somebody else said, you can't be here, that fires me up to make sure I should definitely be there.
Jan:So, um, I guess it flips it on its, and it's head and it's how you use that, and having that, belief within yourself that's a battle between yourself.
Jan:That is a, that is a confidence.
Jan:You've gotta lay down yourself.
Jan:No one else is gonna have that.
Jan:No one else is gonna have that, no one else is gonna understand.
Jan:But if that's the target that you wanna set yourself, um, I'd say use, any ammunition that you have as, as fire and, and, and utilize that to, to the maximum.
Kimberly:Yeah.
Kimberly:I love that.
Kimberly:Great answer.
Kimberly:Thank you so much for, , your time sharing your story.
Kimberly:I think it's, it's a very inspiring one and, I'd love your work ethic.
Kimberly:I feel like you've had imposter syndrome moments over your career where you've handled them and you've, , forged through them, but actually you've never let them get the better
Kimberly:Thank you so much for coming onto the Imposter Club
. Jan:Ah, thanks a lot.
. Jan:Thank you for having me.
Kimberly:Right.
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